Church and State Conference Presentation: God’s People Living Under Pagan Governments – a Biblical Survey

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This past weekend I had the privilege of being a bit player in the 2023 Church and State Summit in Brisbane. A video of my talk is now available, beginning at 6:40:35 at this link.

Sounds like you can hear a little of me speaking to those around me beforehand – my mic was live πŸ™‚

Over 25 minutes I sought to provide a brief Biblical survey of how the people of God have lived (and ought to live) under pagan governments, even when oppressed.

tldr? Jesus wins, so we can relax a little.

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  1. Robert Bruce

    Well done, again, David.

    The people of God are up against the pagans that govern us and that includes the pagans who seek to govern the church. We must β€œrender unto Caesar” what is Caesar’s, so we will pay our taxes, but we will not render up what is God’s to the pagans in the church hierarchy, the Word of God set out in the scriptures.

    When they ask us to do that, we will tell them to go to Hell.

    Keep fighting the good fight. We are with you.

    Robert.

  2. Geoff Fletcher

    Yes David, you have done a lot of work on the public presentation front recently – 3 of them – & under personal burdens it sounds. Well done!

    I’m guessing the minimal blog response thus far is due more to furious agreement rather than furious apathy?! It IS all so very important. Talk to anybody from a country where anarchy reigns and they would give anything for law & order of any other -archy or -ism, especially as we enjoy it here in Australia – with all its warts.

    You talked of an “unbelieving” government. Perhaps you could unpack that? I subscribe to the notion that what people DO, not what they SAY, is what they believe. And if there is a difference between the two then we have an integrity problem, which nobody should have any time for. Still seared into my memory is the action of nominal unbelieving government calling to account an actual (according to actions) non-believing church, from various quarters, via the RC into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. I think at least a generation or so – maybe a biblically significant 40 years? – might be an appropriate period to keep reminding all & sundry (especially lay adherents who were so badly let down).

    You mentioned “transparency & accountability”, especially where sin in concerned. Isn’t that in everything a human touches? How do you think this should play out? Should an archbishop (or related denominational leaders) issue statements to be read to congregations and/or published in weekly newsletters, especially when there had been public reporting? Or just bury the bear minimum of details in reports to Synod (or related denominational business meetings)? If lay adherents don’t know / don’t care what their church is doing in their name then surely that’s a concern?

    On one current matter in the public sphere (arising from the RC), albeit behind some church closed doors at times, can you comment at all on how the Peter Hollingworth case might or should progress? Government is now looking at stripping him of all Governor-General retirement benefits, which WE all pay for. Should the ACA do likewise re his church pension, given the precedent now re Roger Herft?

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