Adult Sunday School in Arizona - automatic weapons

Our first Sunday morning in the States was spent at church in Arizona. It was a truly amazing experience. First, we went back to topical preaching and had a classic example of mainstream American evangelical preaching.

You know what’s coming, I’m going to complain – can’t help myself. But before I do let me just affirm what I liked, indeed loved. Here was a bunch of people who loved the Lord Jesus Christ and a pastor who also did. You can’t knock that. More than that, despite being a Chinese church (albeit the English congregation) there were plenty of white people there. It certainly wasn’t homogeneous. They were gracious and welcoming, especially when  they discovered we were guests. I never wanted for people to chat to the whole time who took a genuine interest in me – or at least faked it really, really well (which is just as good if you’re a guest).

The sermon was on the topic of peace/contentment and our preacher took us to Philippians 1:12-26 (rich pickings). We were exhorted to seek the peace that God brings as opposed to the peace of the world. And how would we do this? Well there, lies the rub…

Paul was our example. Look see! Paul has contentment in a number of ways. After all (chapter 4) he knows the secret to being content in each and every circumstance so we should look at him being content. So look! He was content when he was in bad circumstances, so should we! He was content when others were bad mouthing him, so should we! And he was content even when facing death itself, so should we!

All good stuff, right? Actually, no. As the sermon progressed I got more and more agitated. It took me a while to put my finger on it and then it dawned on me. One word that I blurted out, perhaps a little too loud so that those in the neighbouring rows might hear me,


Where was Jesus in all this? Nowhere! And the irony is that He was right there in Phil 1:12-26. Why did Paul act the way that he did? Well, because of Jesus! Christ was everything to him! He actually writes so (1:21)! But our preacher never took us there. He just spoke about “God” and His peace without  ever telling us how we could get it!

The first verse of the song that we sang immediately afterwards contained more information about Jesus than the whole of the sermon.

And then it got really interesting. Adult Sunday School.

Now Adult Sunday School is a common phenomenon in the US – after or before the church service there is a lesson or Bible study. It’s a great idea and well-attended. Jacqui went to a cracking little study on the women who washes Jesus’ feet in Luke’s gospel. My experience was slightly different. The men at this church had been longing to get to know each other better, build some unity together since they came from various backgrounds – Asian and Anglo. So they’d done a number of things together and on the week that I attended they were sharing their favourite toys or gadgets. The leader talked a bit about the always-brilliant Evernote and then handed over to anyone else who wanted to. I couldn’t quite believe what happened next. A lovely young man in his late twenties that I’d chatted to over morning coffee produced a large canvas bag and proceeded to get out an automatic rifle with scope, torch and extra super-barrel (or something – I’m not too familiar with these things). To the sound of ooh’s and aaah’s of his engrossed audience he talked his way around the gun and then took questions. A few were asked and then I gamely put up my hand…


Well, more fool me. The next 10 minutes contained various impassioned defences of the right to bear arms, the need for us to channel our God-given manliness, the necessity of defending our families and so on. It was incredible. But none of it appeared to make sense.

Someone spoke about going to shoot deer. But how could this automatic weapon be used for that? Well,if you buy 9mm ammo from Palmetto State Armory you could get coyotes. But hang on, surely the point of this particular weapon was to put lots of holes in people at a very rapid rate? No real answer to that one.

And I didn’t really want to get into the fact that Jesus told us very clearly to turn the other cheek and, through His apostle, told us to leave it to the State to execute divine punishment (Rom. 13). These gentlemen just weren’t going to hear it.

But I think what saddened me most was not the gun issue itself – frankly I get it in general, I can see why someone would like to go to a shooting range and pop targets or even shoot a deer or wolf (which is, of course, a very different thing to having a weapon specifically designed to kill a lot of people in a very short amount of time) – I get all that. But what saddened me is that they were much more visibly passionate about that issue than about Jesus. During the whole morning I actually learned a grand total of nothing about why Jesus was worth loving and trusting. But I did learn 6 reasons why a man should own a gun. It was tragic. And not because of the gun thing.

Now, of course, this isn’t the case everywhere. Earlier in the week when I was with other Christian friends I held my first ever gun – a Glock. It was an eeire sensation but one which they took for granted. Nevertheless, these were the sort of people where you would never hear a sermon without having Christ clearly proclaimed and Jesus Christ was very clearly the centre of their thinking.

But friends, it does make me wonder what my own cultural blinkers are? What is it that we in our own cultures hold so dear that we could not countenance the thought that it might not be right? It is so very easy to immerse oneself in another’s culture and spot what is wrong – so much harder to look at our own. And that’s why we all need to remember we need Jesus and only Him – whether we’re gun-toting members of a Chinese Church in Arizona, north-shore Sydney Anglicans or even an Englishman travelling around the world and not  at all sure where he really belongs.

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  1. James White

    Well…first, I really, really doubt that was an automatic weapon.  That requires a particular kind of license that is very expensive.  It was probably a semi-auto, probably an AR-15 type rifle, I assume. Not that you, poor Brit/Aussie mix, would know that.  grin

    Secondly, I have never seen anyone produce a weapon at PRBC.  Ever.  Are there some there?  Yep, but they are not displayed.

    Third, for Sunday School Sunday morning I spoke.  We finished Matthew 22, established the context for the woes upon the Pharisees in Matthew 23, gave some historical context to the rise of the Pharisees, and then began Jesus’ teaching about “Moses’ seat.”  I can provide the Sermon Audio link.  grin

    And Sunday morning sermon?  First few verses of Romans 4, finally.  Fry has been in Romans now for over two years.  Two chapters a year.  Flying, for RB’s.

    So I fully get your concerns on that level, no problem.  Nobody is going to be “talking gun” during Sunday School at PRBC.  Definitely. 

    But I would like to suggest that maybe you are experiencing something I have experienced in my life.  When you have grown up with a particular set of, shall we call them, values, it is very easy to look at a strange new situation (culture) and think that the presence of different values is problematic.  I was raised thinking that ALL drinking and ALL dancing was sinful.  I now know that was untrue.  SOME drinking is sinful (all drunkenness, all usage that flaunts one’s liberties at the cost of a brother, etc.) and SOME dancing is sinful (lewd and lascivious dancing, that which is intended to inflame passion on the part of others).  The dance I did with my daughter at her wedding Friday was the FIRST and ONLY time I have ever “danced” (if you can call that dancing). 

    In any case, it is my experience that in anti-gun countries (and the UK and Australia fall into that category), there is a general demonizing of gun owners or gun possession.  I simply submit to you….the BBC.  Case closed.  In any case, I can understand how you would be surprised at the prevalence of gun ownership here.  But for someone who has enjoyed a glass of wine all their lives, I was pretty weird until a few years ago, and for someone who can waltz beautifully, I’m a dolt.  But it took me a while to “get over” those things in my thinking.  Just as that glass of wine is no big deal for many, so my Glock is no big deal for me.  It’s just there, and woe to the dude who decides to break into my home at 3am in the morning—-but that has not happened (yet).  Those firearms are simply incidental to our everyday lives, and that is probably what you find hard to understand.

    Just some thoughts from your good friend in Arizona, where the US Constitution still exists (though, on its last legs, I do fear). 


  2. Mike

    Cultural blinders for a member of the British realm as seen by a Yank from the Midwest?


    I do not get the hang-up with stopping everything to watch men in white swing ridiculously shaped pieces of wood (they look like oars with the handles cut off) while someone else bowls a ball at them.

    Of course I don’t get the automatic weapon for deer hunting either. Your first 30 seconds after being issued your weapon in military basic training teach you that it was designed for the sole purpose to kill people. 10 minutes later at the rifle range, the instructor cocks his weapon and says he will shoot to kill if you point it at anyone.

  3. David Ould

    Thanks for the comments gents.

    James, I’m delighted I’ve provoked you enough to comment! Glad to hear that (just as I assumed) the sermon and Sunday School at PRBC were far better than my one experience, even if 2 chapters a year does seem rather pedestrian – I think even the good Dr Lloyd-Jones would consider that slightly slow! wink

    As for the cultural blinkers – agreed. But I think I’m just trying to work out where the blinkers are. One of the things that struck me was that the arguments used that morning were not consistent with the weapon being discussed. And I’m still far from convinced that any appeal to “rights” is legitimate for a Christian, at least on our own behalf. But again, part of it is the vastly different cultural backgrounds. We assume far too many things, all of us.

    Can’t help you on the dancing front, I’m afraid. 2 left feet here and chronic male pride prevents any progress in that area. I watched your video though and I thought you did ok – by which I mean you didn’t trip your daughter up wink

    And I’ll take your word on the gun, as a lettuce-eating softy I wouldn’t have a clue.

    Mike, all I’ll say to you is that you’re in danger of being banned if you ever diss the cricket again wink

  4. Joshua Bovis


    Regarding Cricket – I am Australian. I understand Cricket perfectly! And I still can’t stand the game! Good for insomnia!

  5. Alex Monisot

    I am Romanian. Im very like guns , but in my country i cant use , only at special places… if i live in usa ..

  6. David Ould

    HI Alex, great to have you here with us.

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