with thanks to Alpha and Omega Ministries for the link.
Forced conversion to Islam fatal for Christian boy
This sort of thing happens every day. And it’s true Islam. But you won’t hear about it on the news because it would ruin a lot of the misrepresentation of Islam as a “peaceful” religion.
I looked in the Bible; if someone leaves the Christian faith then, well, they just let them go.
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One thing: is there even such a thing as “official Islam” that interprets thorny dogmatic questions? As far as I understand it, it’s a decentralized religion, like Judaism: the word of each mullah/imam is law for those under him, and the different sects and schools of thought developed from there. Admittedly Christianity also has fallen quite far from universal regard for Councils, Magisterium, or other institutions of apostolic authority, but did Islam ever have such things?
two things provide an authoritative interpretation
i the Hadith
ii the life of the Prophet
so, you want a paradigm with which to interpret the sword verses in the Qu’ran? Then see what the Prophet did. And he killed infidels. A lot of them.
Well, fine, but the Answering Islam link you put up in
shows considerable disagreement on the point under discussion.
So are you saying that the “conservative” Muslims (who favor executing apostates) are the only “true” Muslims, and “liberal” Muslims (who don’t) are not? Do Muslims generally agree with your statement of correct Islamic hermeneutics?
well, conservative muslims take the Qu’ran seriously.
As to whether Muslims take such statements as being true, it’s the same as with Christians.
You’re in ECUSA, does Griswold think that the revisionists are authentic Christians?
I am not in ECUSA, so I don’t care what Griswold thinks about anything.
At any rate, I’m not really arguing about whether anyone should or shouldn’t take the Qu’ran seriously, so much as about what the sociological trends are. Is global Islam today more “conservative” or more “liberal”? Obviously, as Christians, I think we’d prefer the latter be the case, but is it?
I am in ECUSA, and I don’t care what Griswold thinks about anything!
Ditto. And, I can say that my entire parish feels the same way. We’ve ceased praying for “Frank, our primate” for many months now…
Sad, but true. Heretics who happen to wear mitres are not part of the Church Catholic and are therefore not entitled to Her prayers for Her Bishops.
We still pray for him … I pray that someday he might believe the gospel and become a Christian as well as just the PB.
(I am not holding my breath, though.)
Aye…and I find myself praying for him…as a person, and pray for my own sins and fallings.
However, we don’t pray for his ministry, collectively, in the Mass, as he has shown himself to be far from being “Frank, our Primate.”
Although, just thinking, after all the Nonsense occured last year, we’ve prayed for +Rowan, +John Paul, +Bartholemew, ‘+’John, the bishop of Newark (not “John our bishop“), and then our FiF/NA and AAC bishops.
I think it is. At least it appears to be in the countries where it is practised.
Is more “liberal” or is more “conservative”? (Sorry, I lost track of the context there.)
more conservative in “Islamic” countries (generally)
I keep hearing that liberal Muslims exist, but I’ve only ever known two kinds of Muslims: Conservative, and apostate. Those that I’ve known personally of each have been excellent human beings, but it does make me question whether liberal Muslims truly exist.
Can you enlighten me?
I keep hearing that liberal Muslims exist, but I’ve only ever known two kinds of Muslims: Conservative, and apostate.
You could make the same claim about Christianity, insofar as the liberal hermeneutic rejects supernatural historical revelation. But if there’s anything to liberalism, then I don’t see why you couldn’t interpret the Qu’ran by that method. It’s harder but not impossible.
Can you enlighten me?
I doubt it. I’m just going by anecdotal evidence: I have read and heard statements by Muslims that contradict what seems to me to be the plain sense of Qu’ran/Hadith/Sunnah. Is that an expression of a legitimate liberal tradition within Islam or is it just an attempt to syncretize and secularize Islam away? Are those two options really the same thing? I don’t know.
You could make the same claim about Christianity, insofar as the liberal hermeneutic rejects supernatural historical revelation.
I understand that, but the “apostate” Muslims I’ve known are self-described as such. Likewise, the “conservative” Muslims are as they themselves describe; moreover, they are quite uniform in their theology. My apostate friends have no particular theology beyond a vague concept of God. While I don’t begrudge them their personal spirituality, to be frank their beliefs simply do not rise to the occasion of contradiction of traditional Islamic teachings, let alone any liberal tradition.
It’s the same as with Christianity: Some simply are Christian more by culture than by faith. I don’t see anything particularly wrong with that, as it seems to serve them well.